Journal
Lo-Fi Faith Meme
15 May 2006 › 16 comments
So, it looks like I’ve been tagged with another one of those crazy meme things. In case you’re wondering, it’s pronounced meem, and is defined as:
A unit of cultural information, such as a cultural practice or idea, that is transmitted verbally or by repeated action from one mind to another. – Source
Anyway, this one was started by Shawn Anthony who then passed the baton to Natalie Jost, who in turn sent it along to me. Not wanting to be a party pooper, here are my answers to questions about faith and scripture:
1: List three words that describe your faith.
- Larry
- Moe
- Curley
(Sorry, couldn’t resist…)
- Genuine
- Inquisitive
- Cynical
2: Describe a belief you are certain about and one with which you struggle.
Jesus is God, took on human form, and came to save the world from their sins. He died the most cruel and ironic death at the hands of those he created as the Word of God. Yet he still lives today, that we would not have to suffer eternal seperation from a God who made us and loves us all, if only we would ask for him to come into our lives and accept that he is the Savior.
As far as a belief with which I struggle: I’m not really sure why any churches baptize infants, aside from the history of traditional superstition that has grown around “fire insurance” for babies. While there are plenty of examples in the Bible of Jesus welcoming kids into his presence, all of the examples of actual baptism are with adults. For instance, Jesus was baptized when he was 30. That being said, I am all for baby dedication and community effort.
I think that if you are old enough to understand that baptism is a public display of an inner action, you are old enough to be baptized. I was at one United Methodist service in which the pastor actually said of a baptized infant: “We thank God today that Mary-Sue has chosen Jesus as her Lord and Savior.” I’m sorry, but if the baby cannot yet control its bowel movements, I hardly think that the cognition is there for more life-changing decisions.
3: What is your mission in life?
My mission is to be a pawn. Awhile back, I read a book about the missionary Jim Elliot. His most famous quote is: “He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.” I think of it like this: In a game of chess, all great players know that they will lose a few pieces. That is inevitable. Usually, it begins with a pawn. Jim Elliot was killed by the very people to which he went to share Christ’s love. Years later, Jim’s dad was able to embrace the man who had killed his son, and tell him he was forgiven. I think that Jim’s attitude was awesome: By his life and death he was able to give glory to God.
When I was at Asbury Theological Seminary, I was inspired by something said by the newly inducted school president. Dr. Jeff Greenway said this: “There is no limit to what you can do for God, if you do not care who gets the credit.” I think that’s so true, and saw far too much clamoring for title and recognition when I was at seminary. I just want to be effective, and do the absolute highest quality work I can do, for God’s glory. If it’s not about reaching out to real people, then we are all just wasting our time. This does not mean we have to be anonymous, rather that we should not be seeking the spot-light.
4: Describe one thing that interferes with authentically living out your faith.
At the core, aside from God working in my life, I am a selfish person who wants my own way. Paul talked about this in Romans 7:14-25, regarding taming our inherant carnal nature in order to focus on eternal matters. For instance, I hate getting cut-off in traffic, and the first inclination is to react negatively, but that is not what the Lord would have us do as believers.
5: What is your favorite story from the Hebrew Scriptures? Why?
I really enjoy the story of Elijah and Elisha, as recorded in 2 Kings. It is a great model of mentoring that I feel is missing in most local churches today. Somewhere along the lines, we lost sight of this being about people, and it became more about politics and titles. For more on that, read this post.
6: What is your favorite New Testament story? Why?
I really like the story of Peter in Acts chapter 3. There was a crippled man begging for money at the entrance to the temple called the Beautiful Gate.
But Peter said, “Silver and gold have I none; but what I have, that give I thee. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk.” And he took him by the right hand, and raised him up: and immediately his feet and his ankle-bones received strength. And leaping up, he stood, and began to walk; and he entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God. – Acts 3:6-8
I think that is such a great example of how Jesus can change people’s lives. We sometimes beg for that which we do not truely need, when really God wants to change our lives in ways we never expected. Trouble is, there are many false prophets out there who claim to be of God, and use the name of Jesus in their “healing” ministries, only for their own financial gain. Beware those that promise healing, yet promote an agenda of selfish motives.
7: Describe a meaningful action you took because of your faith.
I guess you could say that applying for and going to seminary was a meaningful action. I think I was a bit too naive about it though. If anyone reading this is considering going to a seminary, do so with the knowledge that people are still people, no matter where you go, and that you will have to make sure to keep both yourself and others honest about motivations for ministry. It is too easy to slip into an “us and them” mentality, thinking that you are somehow a special snowflake, or a super-Christian. Remember that nobody is so important in the Kingdom of God that they are irreplaceable.
Another meaningful action is that my wife is back in her home country of Estonia, helping to plant a Bible college. Unfortunately, some of the doctrine being spewed is of the name-it and claim-it variety, condemning people who have not recieved healing for their lack of faith. This is a logical paradox, because how is someone supposed to have more faith the next time around? Regardless, she is being faithful to her promise to help her own people. In case anyone wants to read more about that situation, read this post.
8: Does your faith differ from that of your parents? If so, how?
I think that while we have the same faith, I am perhaps a bit more brash and slightly less cautious. You could call it youthful exuberance or just all-out foolishness. I think from my heart, which sometimes is to my detriment, whereas my father is was a pilot and career military man. Despite differening personalities, we both believe in Jesus as the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
9: Who or what was most important in the development of your faith.
Without wanting to sound too sappy, I would have to say it was my mom. She prayed for and continued to love me during my crazy rebellious years. I have many memories of getting ready for bed, and seeing my mom sitting in the living room reading her worn leather-bound Bible. I think this is a trait she inherited from her mother, who also loved to read the Word. I can still remember waking up to my grandma pounding on a kitchen pan, saying “Rise and shine, give God the glory glory,” to which I replied “Argh, at this hour of the day, I don’t think even God wants to hear the glory glory yet!”
10: Pass it on! Tag at least two other religious/faith bloggers.
I would like to hear what my online friend Yannick Lyn Fatt and my real-life seminarian friend David Brooks have to say regarding these questions.
Discussion + Dissension
Comments closed after 2 weeks.
#1 Natalie Jost
So, cool, Nathan, to hear your perspective. I agree with you on the baby baptisms. I wasn’t raised a Christian so I guess that was something I just never understood from the beginning of my faith. I was taught that salvation is something you choose by your choice to follow Christ, not something that can be given by baptism. Baptism being the public declaration of that choice seems a meaningless formality with infants who can’t possibly make that choice yet. Along those lines, the “sprinkle” baptisms never made much sense to me either. :)
God bless your mom and grandma too! That’s such a blessing for a wayward child to have that prayerful influence. I often wish my mom had prayed for me when I was young.
#2 Mithrill
Great post. I also agree with the baby Baptism thing. It is a choice, and I believe that babies are safe until they have the cognitive ability to understand that they are sinners and need forgiveness from our Lord and Savior.
I like your mission in life of being a pawn. Truly the only way to serve is to be a servant. God deserves all the glory for without him we are nothing.
God Bless.
#3 Robert
Good post. I will have to disagree with the baby baptism.
As for babies not being able to believe or comprehend who Jesus is, Luke 1:41 comes to mind. 1 Corinthians 1:16, households were baptized. Nowhere in Scripture can you find that only certain age groups were to be excluded from coming to God and being baptized into Jesus’ death (Romans 6:3).
#4 Nathan Smith
Robert: I was afraid this would happen, and I would end up having to refute infant baptism counter-arguments. It’s okay though, as I have had this same conversation countless times and will just reiterate what I said then.
I think in those cases, the concept of “baptism” is not present. Rather, it is being read back into the text retrospectively, to fit in an erroneous presupposition about what baptism should be. I grew up in, was infant baptized in, and confirmed in the United Methodist Church, so I have heard these scriptures used to bolster that argument more times than I care to recount. Yet, as I have searched the scriptures for myself, I do not see it.
In the case of Luke 1:41, Elisabeth (mother of John the Baptist) had not yet even given birth, let alone had her baby baptized (because it was her yet unborn baby that would institute the whole process of baptism). It is important not to equate the presence of the Spirit / Jesus with the act of water baptism. While the two are of course related, they are not one in the same thing.
As with the case of 1 Corinthians 1:16, saying “household” does not necessarily show inclusion of infants, because it is not said that Stephanas actually had children, or if he did what their ages were. At best, the support based on this evidence is flimsy. I can see where someone might draw that inference, but it is a bit of a stretch in light of the many other instances of adults being baptized who understood what was happening.
If you read the context of Romans chapter 6, you will see that here Paul is talking about how those who have accepted Christ should no longer be living in sin. I think the key is, have people accepted Christ? Is an infant able to make that decision? Again, I would say that the age at which a person is able to make that choice is the age at which they could/should be baptized.
Anyway, my intention here is not to stir a debate, but to get people to search the Bible for themselves, really reading what is there, and not reading into it what possibly your church denomination has told you to think. We shouldn’t be afraid to scrutinize why we believe certain things, because truth stands the test of time and examination. Sometimes, that means realizing that we’ve been raised with some incorrect assumptions, but that is perfectly okay.
My main point is not that children should be excluded from the family of God, not at all. All I am saying is that there is obvious Biblical evidence for the baptism of people who understood the significance in their lives. So, that is why it is confusing to me that we would extrapolate principles from scriptures that do not really speak about baptism, rather than just do what is so clearly illustrated already. I cannot even recall what my baptism was like as an infant, which is why when I got to college and started learning more about what baptism is, I felt that I should get re-baptized (oh the blasphemy).
To me, it’s more about who Jesus is, and less about the minutia of how we work out the smaller details of various sacraments. Those are comparatively less important in light of the essential message of salvation by faith in Christ.
#5 Shawn Anthony
Great post Nathan … and even better conversation in the comments! I figure this meme will be the catalyst of many conversations on religious blogs, at least that is my hope! It seems to be working …
Cue mischievous – yet spiritually healthy – laughter
Much peace …
#6 Ben Gray
I enjoyed reading your thoughts, Nathan. I do agree with you on infant baptism but in the end I think you’re correct in that it’s a very small issue. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
#7 Robert
My comment wasn’t meant to sound argumentative, but rather presenting another side. I grew up in non-denominational circles and the premise that infants shouldn’t be baptised is because they must first believe before being baptised. Luke 1:41 tells of John the Baptists, 6 months in utero, leaping when Mary, and Jesus in her womb, enter Elizabeths house. Indeed, John knew his Savior was present, even before his birth.
If it is necessary to find in the Bible a passage that says “children can be baptised” then we are going to be hard pressed on many other issues within Christianity.
My last point would be that faith, we don’t attain, but rather God gives us. It is always a God to us relationship, not us doing something for God, as if He needs something from us. It is God who is trying to save us, not us saving ourselves. And it is Jesus who baptizes with the Holy Spirit, not us bringing the Holy Spirit on ourselves to be baptized. In short, baptism, in my opinion, it is not something we do for God, but something God does for us.
Don’t take this the wrong way, just presenting my thoughts. :)
#8 Yannick
Thanks for tagging me Nathan. I might be a little late with my response as this one requires a bit more thought. Will try to get it up as soon as possible.
#9 Nathan Smith
Robert: No offense taken bro, don’t sweat it. I don’t have anything against children being baptized, so long as they can make that choice. I think that a baby being aware of God’s love / presence is different from comprehending it, but I see where you’re coming from. I think of it this way: a baby’s face lights up when it sees its parents, but it is not until later on in life that it understands how it came to be, and the sacrifice that it takes to raise a child. The baby just knows: “These people take care of me.” I of course am not yet a parent, so that is just an analogy, as best as I know how to say it.
I agree that faith comes from God, and that every breath we breathe is a gift. To even be able to exist is amazing. Still, I do think that to recieve salvation, it takes an ever so slight effort on our part, in the way that reaching for a gift being handed to you takes effort. We don’t earn it, but still must accept it. That is no more complicated than saying “Jesus, please come into my heart and be my savior.” Anything on top of that is like giving someone a dollar for a mansion. It is insulting to the owner, who wants you to have it for free.
Yannick: Take your time, it’s no big deal. Whenever you are able to post responses that’s fine by me. I just thought it’d be cool to hear your perspective, being from Jamaica and all.
#10 Yannick
Ok I’ve done mine. Thanks again for the tag Nathan.
#11 matt
I used to think very similarly on the issue of infant baptism (or paedobaptism) – meaning I thought there was no Biblical evidence to support it. I wen t to Bethlehem Baptist for a number of years and sat under very intelligent, wise and gracious teaching and preaching that found no merit for paedobaptism. However, when I moved to Austin, I had difficulty finding a good, reformed church (we later found The Austin Stone, but that’s another story).
My wife and I have some very good friends who are Presbyterian, so we thought we’d check out a PCA church. With a new born, I knew this was an issue I was going to have to address and come to some conclusion on. Through a lot of research and prayer, I realized that there was as much wise, intelligent and gracious instruction supporting paedobaptism as there was supporting credobaptism (believers baptism).
Robert is right in stating that we shouldn’t discredit something like this simply because there is no direct passage about it (e.g. the trinity). However, there is also no scripture that flat out denies it – there is no passage reading, “You must make a conscious decision to accept Jesus in order to be baptised,” or “Baptism is a public display of an inner faith.”
I think we need to address what baptism is. What is its purpose? While it is an act of obedience, it is also a sign of the new covenant – just like circumcision was both and act of obedience and a sign of the old covenant. What similarities can (or should) be drawn? I think I had just assumed that those on “the other side” of the issue didn’t have accurate Biblical evidence to support their beliefs regarding baptism. In some cases, that was true – for both them and myself. There were many things I believed sort of blindly. Not that I hadn’t thought critically about it, but I had come to some very solid conclusions having never heard from wise people who believed diffrently. I just assumed it was fire insurance for babies across the board.
Sorry for the rant. This is your blog, not mine ;) At the risk of getting this comment falgged for yet another link, I’d like to point you guys to some articles on monergism.com. This is a pretty thorough rescource. And you all strike me as the kind of folks who appreciate thorough resources :)
#12 matt
None of my links worked?
http://bbcmpls.org
http://theaustinstone.org
http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/topic/babtism.html
#13 Nathan Smith
Matt: Yeah, Textpattern strips out all real HTML by default, to avoid SQL injection attacks. If you click the “Help” link next to message, there is a little cheat sheet explaining how to use Textile synax to add links and formatting.
#14 Wagnerius
The questions are quite qood but limited to a christian perspective.
One can be religious without being christian. I am sure other perspectives are worthy enough to be taken into account.
#15 Nathan Smith
Wagnerius: I think you’re missing the point of this meme, which was to get individuals describing their own understanding of faith. That’s all I have done. If you have a problem with the meme being too narrowly focused, you can take that up with Shawn, as it originated with him. I am all for open dialoge, and part of that is allowing people to voice their own opinions freely.
I agree that you can be religious without being Christian. Religion is just a set of man made customs and practices, whereas Christianity is supposed to be about a relationship with the Living God. I think that Christianity has allowed religion to encroach a bit too far into our ways of thinking, becoming dogmatic rather than knowing why we claim to believe certain things. I think that there is far too much liturgy filling our services, and not enough understanding.
I have taken other religions into account through study, and have found them to be somewhat lacking, because they are mostly about following a process rather than knowing Jesus as Lord and Savior. If you have a different perspective, please share it on your own blog, and post a link to it here.
#16 Natalie Jost
”...Christianity has allowed religion to encroach a bit too far into our ways of thinking, becoming dogmatic rather than knowing why we claim to believe certain things.”
Beautifully said, Nathan. Way too many people clump Christianity in with religions when it really stands on its own as a LIFE with a LIVING God. It is not a following of ideas or rules, but connecting spiritually with an actual living being, the Creator, not a man who died long ago.