Journal
Firefox 1.5 vs Opera 8.5
22 September 2005 › 44 comments
Round One, Fight!
In case you’ve been living under a rock lately, Opera recently announced that as of version 8.5, they will no longer be charging for usage of their browser. In the past, previous versions were free for download. However, unless you paid for it, you were greeted by a built-in banner advertisement during the entirety of your web browsing. I had given it a try a few years ago, but simply had not found anything useful enough to merit either paying for it, or tolerating the ads. So, I switched back to Internet Explorer (pre-Firefox).
Those were dark days, my friend, dark days. Luckily, there has been a new dawn, of brilliant luminance, shining forth from the Firefox. Recently I’ve been using the beta of Firefox 1.5, and have to say that thus far, it’s been the most pleasant browsing experience ever. But, now that Opera has done the right thing, I wanted to give them a fair shot, an objective look to see if it’s worth making the switch. First, I’ll take a look at what I love about Firefox 1.5, and then I’ll critique Opera 8.5.
Note: I have left out Safari, because even though it is an awesome browser, the majority of users who are on Windows don’t have this luxury. I am also not critiquing Internet Explorer because there haven’t really been any notable improvements in the past five years, with the exception of the IE Dev Toolbar.
So, basically the purpose of this article is to take a look at the two main alternatives to IE6, because no self-respecting Windows user should still be forced to use this browser. In an attempt to be objective, I will be looking at both Firefox and Opera from a fresh-install, “out of the box” standpoint, as to not sway opinion based on extensions. Let us look first at the Fox…
Firefox 1.5 Beta
From my stats logs, I see that the majority of visitors to this site are on Firefox already, so I’m assuming you already know what makes it so great. I will turn my attention instead to the improvements I’ve noticed in the 1.5 beta. Thus far, I have been very impressed by the ability to drag and drop tabs to arrange them in different order. This has made it very easy to arrange multiple homepages in the order I want them to appear, rather than having to manually re-open each one and then reset my homepages.
Another feature I really love, also related to tabbed-browsing, is the option to force all target="_blank" and JavaScript pop-ups to launch in a new tab, or the same window, rather than spawn a new window. To me, this is the epitome of tabbed-browsing, giving power back to the user and taking it out of the hands of picky developers. As you may know, one of my pet-peeves is an all-Flash site that launches another window, just for the sake of aesthetics.
Opera, a Fair Shake
Now, shifting the focus, I will describe what I like about this browser. The coolest feature is by far the zoom feature. Rather than just resize the text like most browsers, it treats the entire page as a whole, and zooms in accordinly. It would be like having a newspaper in front of you, and gradually bringing it closer to your eyes, rather than just having all the titles and story text get bigger while the paper itself remained the same size. Basically, the zoom enlarges everything proportionally, very nice.
That being said, there is little else I have found about Opera that Firefox doesn’t already do better. A quick glance at the product features they’re boasting reads like a laundry list of what Firefox already offers. The one thing that stands out as possibly useful is Voice, which allows a user to talk to their browser. I can see this being useful for those with impaired motor funtion, and applaud them for taking these steps. However, for the average person, you’ll probably get some funny looks if you’re sitting in your cubicle talking to your computer, saying things like: “Opera next link, Opera back…”
Another interesting point on their list that they are supposedly the first browser to offer native support for SVG, Scalable Vector Graphics. This was a spec for an open-source alternative to Flash, pioneered by companies like Adobe. But, now that they’ve basically conceeded defeat and bought Macromedia, I don’t see SVG being all that important, in light of Flash.
So, those pleasantries aside, allow me to rip on the things I dislike about Opera. First of all, and this is huge – there is barely any support for negative CSS margins. Look at some of your favorite sites in Opera, and see what I mean. For designers, this means that many techniques for tweaking margins and padding are not available if your client cares about Opera.
Another big qualm I have is that when you display a site in full-screen, Opera looks for CSS of media="projection". This means that if you have a style type defined, such as for screen or print, when full-screened in Opera the user will see an unstyled page, with just line by line text. Luckily, it is easily fixed by changing your type to media="screen, projection".
In my opinion, this is a huge logical flaw on the part of Opera. Very rarely when a website is displayed in full-screen does this mean that the user has a projector hooked up to their computer. Most of the time, it will be people wanting to take screenshots of a site, or simply see more of the page they are reading. Why they chose to make this styled projection is beyond me.
I was also surprised and disappointed when I realized Opera does not have accesskey support. It’s odd that they would go to such great lengths to have a nice zoom feature for those who are visually impaired, and yet leave out something as simple as this. Basically, this means that embedded keyboard shortcuts don’t work if you are viewing a site in Opera.
Okay, almost done, but before I finish ripping on Opera, I want to point out one more thing I don’t like. This isn’t so much a bug as it is a non-sensical issue. In Firefox, when you press Ctrl-T this opens a new tab, and when you press Ctrl-N it opens a new window. It should be noted that Ctrl-N is a very common shortcut, and launches a new document in just about every single Windows program. In Opera, Ctrl-N opens a new tab, and in order to open a new window, you have do so some limber finger-work and hit Alt-Ctrl-N. Again, seems very counter-intuitive. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t think it’s really a “shortcut” if it takes more than one hand to use.
Tweaked Out
Another problem with Opera is that of customization. It seems to have a whole lot of options that don’t add up to very much. For instance, there are Appearance and Preferences under Tools. I wonder, could these both not have been consolidated into one, as in Firefox? Also, I find it funny that Opera offers a Clock feature, since it displays the same time as in the system tray.
Also, with Firefox, it is possible to fully customize the position of pretty much anything, from the address bar, to every last button. Since I prefer to see as much of a web page as I can, I have everything positioned on one bar, so no space is wasted, and I make the most of my screen. Even Internet Explorer 6 can do this by default. It is odd that Opera locks you into what can be put on certain bars, so one cannot achieve the same effect…
Note: Opera actually allows for a little better customization than the illustration below indicates, though not as flexible as Firefox (thanks David).
The illustration above shows a comparison of how I customize Firefox, and the closest I could do in Opera. Note that there is not a single bit of wasted space with Firefox, but with Opera, only 1/3^rd^ of the browser top is actually put to good use. Also, though there are plenty of useless extra buttons available, one of my Firefox favorites is absent in Opera – the view downloads button.
Wrapping it Up
So, in case it has not yet become obvious, I heavily favor Firefox over Opera. While it is cool that Opera is now offering their browser free, I think it will be a few more versions before anyone should care. The only immediate effect of Opera being free is designers have yet another quirky browser to cater to. In order of preference, here is how I rank the major browsers out there: Firefox, Safari, Opera, Netscape, and Internet Explorer in distant last place.
Discussion + Dissension
Comments closed after 2 weeks.
#1 Yannick
Wow Nathan. Pretty good look into Opera there. I never really took notice to some of those things. One thing Opera also has over Firefox is “mouse gestures,” Tools->Preferences->Advanced->Shortcuts. That is a pretty cool feature. I do agree though there aren’t many things that I have found in Opera that Firefox doesn’t have also or do better.
Since the release of 8.5, I have found myself using both to get a feel for differences in rendering but I am happy you did this “review” per-say as it shed some light on some of the feature differences.
I will still have Opera, Firefox and IE around of course for testing purposes, but Firefox is the one for me at the moment.
#2 Nathan Smith
Actually, Firefox supports mouse gestures as well, but through a separate download. I think that’s what I like about Firefox so much. There are plenty of extensions, but by default it runs with just the things a good browser needs to have, and then users can branch off according to their individual preferences.
#3 Fungus Mungus
There is one bug in Firefox that is problematic for those developing flash based web applications. When inserting .swf files (icons, pictures, thumbnails) in a grid using Macromedia’s Cold Fusion or Flex, Firefox struggles. The graphics show up temporarily, but then disappear one by one.
Safari, Opera, IE handle this with no problem.
#4 Dagmar Hansen
You forget about a couple nice Opera features:
Small-screen mode and fit to window with. Both found under view.
The projection-mode which I think is an excellent way to make presentations. I really don’t know about any software that’s for this. I’ve never experienced any missing stylesheet-problems, but that’s something that should be easy to fix.
Ctrl+N usually means a new file/document/whatever, not a new window. Opera shows it’s documents as tabs in a single window by default, Firefox doesn’t. At least that’s the way I look at it and I prefeer the way Opera does it.
#5 pisuke
Well, and of course de big difference is that Firefox is open-source.
It means that the great job done by programers is shared to everyone (who cares) giving freedom to the community and the oportunity to get people involved.
This is THE reason.
#6 Nathan Smith
Fungus: I was not aware of the ColdFusion / Flex problems that Firefox has. I haven’t had to do much development with those platforms. Thanks for pointing that out. Any idea what causes it?
Dagmar: I covered this briefly, considering that small-screen is a zoom mode. I agree, projection-mode is a good way to make presentations, especially with the way that Eric Meyer has pioneered. My point was, most users are not using full-screen mode to show presentations on a projector. Perhaps there should be an entirely separate browser mode for this.
As far as spawning new windows, I guess I’m just thinking that since Firefox follows suit with IE, that Opera should also open a new window w/ Ctrl-N. I see your point, but still think that if Opera wants to succeed, they shouldn’t try to re-invent the wheel, and stick with conventions that users are familiar with.
Pisuke: I agree. It really doesn’t matter if Opera is free for the end-user. The only way it will keep it improving at the same rate as Firefox is if they go open-source.
I think of it like this: Opera is like a pizza place that has a secret sauce that nobody is buying, so they decide to just give away free pizzas. But, nobody cares, because everyone goes to this great restaurant called Firefox, where everyone is allowed to cook.
#7 david gouch
Opera does have access key support. Pressing Shift-Esc enters access key mode, so that all the keys are available as access keys. Most other browsers use Ctrl/Alt + access key, which can conflict with regular browser shortcuts.
As for broken fullscreen, Opera only ignores stylesheets in fullscreen mode if the author specifically calls them as “screen” stylesheets. So if you have
media="all"or just leave off that attribute, Opera will use the site’s stylesheet in fullscreen mode.I’m glad you showed the minimal toolbar setups for both browsers after tweaking, because Opera’s default takes up a lot of space. To be fair, you can set Opera to not show the tab bar when only one tab is open.
And why I feel the need to defend Opera, I don’t know.
#8 Elran
David, that last line made me laugh. i read the whole article and all the comments, then i get to yours and i’m thinking to myself “here we go.. another Opera evangelist”. but then.. ah, well.. i just thought it was funny. everyone’s had those types of moments where you find you’ve been defending something and don’t know why. maybe because we can’t help but defend the underdog. good points though about Opera.
Nathan, awesome review. i’ve been putting off trying out the new Opera and now i think i’ll wait a bit longer. i remember trying Opera over a year ago with the ads at the top. the first thing i’d do is switch the browser into fullscreen mode to hide the ads.
i kind of liked Opera back then, but Firefox is where i’m at.
#9 Nathan Smith
David: I figured someone would correct me about the
accesskeyissue, but just hadn’t been able to figure it out at first glance. And, that is sort of how I like to approach things, as the average person would, because hey – I’m pretty average.Good point about the media types. I had tried to explain that, but I don’t think I did a thourough job of it. Also, if you use an undefined type for your CSS, Opera also works just fine in full-screen.
As far as minimalism goes, with Opera you can choose to either have the tab bar viewable all the time, or not at all. What is odd, is that if you open a “new tab” while the tab bar is hidden, the previous one still exists, you just can’t see it. I wish it was more like Firefox, hiding the tab bar when one page is open, and then displaying it when multiple pages are viewed.
Elran: Don’t let me put you off too much from Opera. Don’t get me wrong, it has its redeeming qualities. The zoom feature alone is worth installing it. However, it simply is not user friendly enough to justify using it as a primary browser.
#10 Yannick
“Actually, Firefox supports mouse gestures as well, but through a separate download. I think that’s what I like about Firefox so much. There are plenty of extensions, but by default it runs with just the things a good browser needs to have, and then users can branch off according to their individual preferences.”
hehe I didn’t realise there was one for Firefox but then again I should have known someone would do it eventually. I agree though firefox gives you the basics that people need and then if you so desire you can add extensions to suit your extra needs.
#11 Nathan Smith
Yannick:
In fact, I think that Opera probably has native mouse gestures because Firefox already had them as an extension. They saw what was popular, and copy-cat’d it.Don’t quote me on that, but I think it’s how it happened.I have since been corrected, Opera had tabs first. My bad, sorry everyone.
#12 Henrik Feldt
Hi, thought I might add some
First of all I do use firefox as you might or might not detect via me posting this. I do that because there are a couple of very good web designer tools avaliable for firefox, but not for Opera.
Had I been a standard user on the other hand I would definately have used Opera since I find it better. Let me tell you why. You are disregarding the extensions, so fine, so am I, but I just need to say that the web-dev toolbar for opera is really great.
1. Mouse gestures as mentioned before, by default installation
2. The space occupied is wrong in your article – you only have one tab open, and you can indeed hide the tab-bar then – just as in firefox. Compare the two with the same settings and you’ll find not much difference (as mentioned, but just thought I ought to push for it a bit more ;))
3. E-mail client supporting pop3 and imap as far as I know
4. Notebook – for handy side-notes when you’re surfing
5. Better bookmark support – better sorting avaliable
6. Built in RSS support which lets you know about new entries better than firefox does.
7. A toolbar for link tags, which I havne’t found in other browsers, but find very handy if web developers would just incorporate it better into the sites.
8. Great CSS support, but I don’t know about the margins though. Haven’t had any problems with it myself.
9. Zoom is nicer than in firefox
10. Support is avaliable by phone if you want to
11. Many settings are avaliable to change easily (easily != about:config)
and there are great sides of firefox too, like adding keywords to search fields dynamically or auto-complete for the address bar or “view selection source” or coloured html etc, but that’s for web developers and I do think I’d rather use Opera, had I not been one.
#13 Yannick
Henrik thats a decent list, however, (for #3) when I get a browser, personally I don’t want a built in e-mail client. I just want the browser. I wonder how many people use the built-in e-mail client? :)
“but I just need to say that the web-dev toolbar for opera is really great”
Thanks for letting us know about this. I will check it out.
#14 Nathan Smith
Henrik: I still think that tab-support is better handled in Firefox, and here’s why. In Opera, you can use tabs, but that whole bar either needs to be on or off. In Firefox, you can use tabs, but hide the whole tab bar when only one site is being viewed. Also, it is impossible to set more than one site as a homepage in Opera, completely negating the necessity of having a tab-bar viewable by default.
You can “continue saved sessions,” but this isn’t quite as easy to manage as simply setting all open tabs as homepages. I suppose it would make it easier to have sets of sites that you have viewable together. But, in my opinion, Firefox manages this better by letting you set multiple open tabs at once through bookmarks.
Essentially, both browsers can do the same thing with tabs, but Firefox handles them much more effiently and intuitively. Once again, as in the case with
Ctrl-N, Opera is attempting to re-invent the wheel.I agree too, the color-coded View Source is much nicer in Firefox, as well as the Find feature. In fact, there are many times in which I’ll be working in other programs, and be disappointed when I realize the same cool Find method is not available in other programs (MS Office, for instance).
Off-topic: I looked at my own site in Opera, and found it odd that it applies the CSS property
small-capsto numbers. This is inherantly wrong, because numbers do not have lowercase and uppercase variants, and as such cannot logically be written in small capitalized letters. Once again, Opera fails to operate according to common-sense (IE6 handles it fine).#15 Nathan Smith
Yannick: I agree, I prefer to handle my POP3 email in a separate program. Though, after about a month of tentative use, I have done the same thing as Craig, and switched entirely to using Gmail to handle all my email accounts. For awhile I used Mozilla Thunderbird, but found that it let through too many things that were spam, and flagged to many things as spam that were in fact legitimate emails.
Gmail though, has yet to get any of them wrong. I think that having thousands of users flagging spam everyday helps their filters to learn, and get smarter as time goes on. Thunderbird, while a really good program, has spam-filtering that is localized. Meaning, even if you use the same email account, but with a fresh install of Thunderbird on a new computer, you have to start all over again with your spam filter. Either that, or export all your settings. The idea of a globalized Gmail inbox is just so cool.
Add to that the ability to use POP3 with Gmail, and you've got yourself a win-win situation. And, the new “send as” feature in Gmail, lets you use the same login to handle multiple domain-name accounts. This reminds me, if anyone wants a Gmail invite, let me know, because I have 100 to give away. They say it’s still by invitation only, but let people give them away like candy in a dentist office. Not sure why that is, but I'm glad it's free.
#16 Kevin
Personally I think this is an extremely biased review. At first you said you work with the browsers “out of the box”, yet you later customize them. Then, if you noticed, Opera’s “large” top bar includes a row in which tabs appear, which in the Firefox you customized does not. You stress the fact that tabbed browsing is important, so when you’re using Firefox with that thin bar, it will be further expanded to fit in your tabbed windows, while the Opera browser will not.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not an Opera fanboy, in fact I use Firefox as my default browser (due to the fact that it renders pages a ton better than Opera). Just try to be a little more fair next time.
#17 Henrik
“In Opera, you can use tabs, but that whole bar either needs to be on or off. In Firefox, you can use tabs, but hide the whole tab bar when only one site is being viewed.”
So you can do in opera. I wrote:
“The space occupied is wrong in your article – you only have one tab open, and you can indeed hide the tab-bar then – just as in firefox.”
“You can [choose] “continue saved sessions“”
Well see, there’s another nice feature not avaliable in FF, as you say yourself.
About the tabs and what keyboard shortcut you use – it’s really irrelevant, don’t you think? What differs is the usability of the browser and learning to press N instead of T is really a very small change.
About the e-mail – well, I’d agree with you – it might not be something YOU use, but some people do, and Opera is still a very fast browser – both rendering and startup-time – something that often is affected by added features. Just think about the fact that they have Opera avaliable in cell phones ;) – kinda nice isn’t it?
The small-screen mode isn’t a “zoom” as you expressed it in your article. The browser redraws the whole layout with css media=”handheld” if present, or otherwhise it reflows the elements. It’s rather different from another zoom mode that is.
“But, in my opinion, Firefox manages this better by letting you set multiple open tabs at once through bookmarks.”
you say. Well… Bring up the bookmark panel in Opera and then rightclick on a folder – then choose “open in new page” or “open in background page”, and the browser opens multiple tabs though bookmarks AND it lets you choose whether to focus on the tabs or not.
To be honest I don’t think you’ve investigated the possibilities of Opera enough to write an unbiased review, and in doing so I think you produce badwill for your site to some extent, to be honest :s. Especially when writing:
“So, in case it has not yet become obvious, I heavily favor Firefox over Opera. While it is cool that Opera is now offering their browser free, I think it will be a few more versions before anyone should care.” as you did in the end of your article.
Now, I’m not saying that Opera is the better browser for everyone, but time is money and time is also something ordinary users have little off – so the extra e-mail client in opera or RSS reader is actually something beneficial since more persons will have access to them than if they had not been included.
As I said before; since I’m a web developer I favor firefox too, because of its extend- and flexibility – but extending and improving firefox is not something regular ‘moms’ do… (talking from experience) so in that case I’d favor Opera.
#18 Henrik
Oh, yeah. And when we’re being picky about CSS2.1 implementation – neither Firefox 1.07 nor 1.5 Beta 1 has implemented “counter” and “counter-increment” in the browser, but Opera has.
In the experimental CSS field, Firefox won’t pull out data from the head, and display in the body, as it should be able to do.
See link for last statement:
http://nemesis1.f2o.org/aarchive?id=6
#19 Nathan Smith
Kevin: By “out of the box” I meant using customization that is available by default, not simply leaving the browser interface untouched. I see your point about tabs, but just wish that Opera would had the option to “Hide tab bar when only one site is open.”
Can someone explain to me how to hide the tab bar when only one site is open, and have it appear when multiple tabs are open? I just can’t seem to figure it out. As far as I can tell, it’s all or none.
Henrik: Good point about small-screen +
handheld. I stand corrected. Perhaps I should have titled this article: “First time Opera impressions, from an extremely biased Firefox fan.”I stand by what I said about
Ctrl-N, as that’s a convention I think that should be the same across the board. If I want to learn new keyboard commands, I’ll buy a Mac (which I plan to soon, actually). You’re right though, I was a bit harsh in my closing paragraph. I’m planning on using Opera for awhile more, and then doing another article on what it does better than other browsers.I wasn’t aware of the
counter-incrimentissue, and am glad to hear Opera is leading the pack on this one. Here’s a link for others who are curious:http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/generate.html
#20 Henrik
Hello Nathan
Damn it feels good to win arguments hehe, j/k, but it does
Anyhow… How you fix the tab bar. It is possible.
Tools>Preferences>Toolbars
then click the tab bar
then check the checkbox “Show only when needed”.
The title on this post yeah, sure, why not? ;)
#21 david gouch
Nathan: “Can someone explain to me how to hide the tab bar when only one site is open, and have it appear when multiple tabs are open?”
See: http://freepgs.com/individed/etc/opera-tabs.png
#22 Nathan Smith
Man, do I feel dumb. I see what you meant now. Sorry for the confusion. It still seems a bit difficult to use, the options in Opera, but I think I’m getting the hang of it a little better. Thanks for spelling it out for me, I never would’ve known that various check-boxes affected new options below. Seems like the same sort of problem as drop-down navigation: you don’t know what choices are available until you’ve clicked around for awhile.
#23 JD
Okay, Nathan. I read your article. I read it again. Wow. First off, let me say that it is not my intention to rip on you. Sadly, though your extreme bias throughout the article taints any (good) image you’re trying to give Opera.
First, this extensions buisness. Yes, Firefox has extensions. Yes, they are good. Okay, now take a step back and look at Opera. Most extensions users would download are incorporated into Opera after first install. In fact, despite the large numbers of extensions available, there are some features in Opera that don’t exist in any of the extensions! Now, I know that you (and your readers) probably think that the extension is Firefox’s greatest trump card. But, have you ever heard of plugins for Opera? They’re like extensions, downloadable and installed very easily, but for Opera. So really, the extensions issue is a moot point, because well, Opera has the same, they’re just called different.
Next, you said:
“I think that Opera probably has native mouse gestures because Firefox already had them as an extension”
See, it’s statements like this, made ignorantly and without any research that really get to me. So, I did my own research.
Mouse Gestures Introduced:
Opera 6.0 Beta: March, 2002
http://reviews.cnet.com/Opera_6_0/4505-3513_7-8032975-2.html?tag=glance
Firefox: It’s unclear, but somewhere around Dec, 2003.
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,114843,00.asp
So, in fact it was Opera that introduced mouse gestures. Firefox was the “copycat”, coming out with extensions almost 2 years later. All I ask is before you talk, at least know what you’re talking about.
One last thing: you criticized Opera’s handling of tabbed browsing compare to Firefox’s. Let me be clear on this. Opera is an MDI (Multiple Document Interface) application. This means that one can resize, tile, and cascade tabs within the program. Firefox isn’t an MDI application. Now, with an MDI base, this enables Opera to use far less memory when opening new tabs than Firefox. Try it! Simply start one or the other, open up a few tabs, and check your RAM usages stats. So, basically, Firefox “cheats” to look like Opera, because remember, Opera was introduced 10 years ago, and tabbed browsing was a feature incorporated all the way back in its infancy.
Now, when I said Firefox “cheats”, don’t take that the wrong way. Most users don’t care about MDI. Most users don’t care about RAM usage. Firefox simply masquerades, and for most users, it’s fine. Heck, I don’t mind. But to say that Firefox handles tabbed browsing better than Opera is just silly. The bottom line is that Opera is an MDI application, Firefox isn’t. And it really does make all the difference.
#24 Nathan Smith
JD: Man, I apologize for showing Opera in a negative light. To make up for it, I’m planning a future overview of what Opera does really well, such as good use of transparencies when dragging and dropping tabs. I admit, I threw together the article w/ a bit of frustration over the learning curve of yet another free browser I need to consider when developing sites. ;)
In my defense, I did say “Don’t quote me on that,” but you’re right, I should have better researched it before I went firing off my loud-mouth’d opinions.
#25 treego14
Have you tried linked windows in Opera? It’s very neat stuff. I can view 2 webpages side by side; if I click on a link in webpage 1, the resultant webpage appears right next to the original webpage.
Have you tried playing with turbo shortcuts in Opera? (hint: Shift-F2—- works on bookmarks and bookmark folders)—- see http://operalover.tntluoma.com/8/day_18_bookmarks for more on this.
Have you tried to fit-to-width page viewing?
Have you tried spatial navigation for full keyboard browsing with ease and comfort?
Have you noticed that mouse gestures are fully customizable and capable of being used in panels, even?
I know you’re not too interested in the email client or other non-browser features like newsgroup reader, newsfeed aggregator, chat client, and contact manager, but I think you’re missing out on the beauty of Opera’s integration of all these features into a very tight and brilliantly designed Internet tool. I think it’s very cool to have the mail open up in a separate tab. I think it’s very neat being able to forward interesting RSS newsfeed messages/links to my friends/contacts so easily (just press ‘f’ and select my friend from a drop down list and I’m done).
Have you tried Rewind after viewing a series of pictures at a given website? Have you ever tried FastForward while viewing a forum page or a Google Search results page?
Have you ever tried the Reload from Cache feature after modifying a page’s source code to see how the page can/will change after modifications?
Have you noticed how convenient F12 is for quick customizations?
I like the integration of mail, browsing, chat, newsfeeds, and newsgroups with a common interface and common mouse gestures and keyboard shortcuts for everything that Opera gives me (all mouse gestures and keyboard shortcuts are easily and fully customizable, also).
And Opera does it in a very small download.
I don’t know how they do it, but quality and quantity (in terms of features and the ability to integrate them) lean heavily in favor of Opera for me.
I don’t like having to rely on 3rd party software that just does not integrate everything together as smoothly as Opera has done it. I’m also not to keen on the idea of having to download so many extensions from sources that I don’t really know or trust to try to get back what Opera gives me natively. I’m also not fond of the recurring problems with extensions not being able to keep up with Firefox’s development and becoming inoperable so often after upgrades. Too much of a hassle, let alone the security and not-as-nice integration factors.
Firefox is a nice browser, though it does seem to be having more security concerns than has IE of late. Opera’s security record has been the best of all browsers so far, also.
Anyway, that’s my 2 cents. Bottomline, use what you like and like what you use or don’t use it. Opera has me sold … even if it is completely free now. :-)
See http://operalover.tntluoma.com/8/day_1_general_preferences and http://nontroppo.org/wiki/Opera7 and http://nontroppo.org/wiki/WhyOpera for more good stuff on Opera. :-)
#26 Kevin
Just in light of all the criticism you’re receiving, I love your site =D. And awesome awesome favicon.
#27 Lusc
I was a firefox user but after spending some time with Opera 8.5 have been converted.
I was not initially that impressed by Opera but the more time I spent with it the more I appreciated all it’s cool functions. It also loads much faster than Firefox on my machine. My opinion was reinforced when my hard drive died recently. Digging up all the extensions I had had on Firefox took ages whereas Opera comes in one neat package.
Opera is beautiful program, but the best thing is that we have the choice.
#28 Nathan Smith
Kevin: Thanks. I was trying to draw a pixel chat-bubble, and realized I could make it look like a little face. Given that I’m 1/2 Japanese, the small squinty eyes are fitting. :)
Lusc: I agree, the more I use it and get used to it, the more I’m liking it. I still use Firefox as my primary browser, but Opera is sort of growing on me. There are just a few things that keep me from really liking it alot.
#29 sil
You can customize Opera 8.5 Interface to look exactly like Firefox. At first I was turned off by the interface bloaty-ness at default, but after spending more time with Opera 8.5 its really growing on me. I’m learning about the many new features Opera 8.5 have over Firefox everyday.
There is no doubt in my mind that Opera 8.5 is superior to Firefox 1.5
#30 sil
This website compares the security problems between Firefox and Opera.
http://secunia.com/product/4227/
http://secunia.com/product/4932/
Currently Opera have all 8 problem fixed, while Firefox still have 3 problems out of 24 problem fixed
#31 Nathan Smith
Sil, thanks for the links. Be sure to check out the follow-up article I wrote, highlighting some of the browser’s better features. You’re right, it actually does quite a few things better than Firefox, despite some of the other faults it may have. Anyways, the article is posted now: Opera, Round 2.
#32 Superfluid
@Nathan: I agree with many others that you didn’t use Opera enough before reviewing it, but I’m writing this to say GOOD JOB for not lashing out like a jerk at those who love Opera (like myself) who corrected some of your mistakes. Very classy.
I am going to read the follow-up now!
#33 Kelson
@Henrik: Actually, Firefox 1.5 has implemented counter and counter-increment, although it matches an upcoming CSS draft rather than the current one.
#34 Panos
I thought this article started by stating it would be unbiased. It seems to me that this article is nothing more than nitpicking at Opera after maybe using it for 30 minutes.
#35 Mukund
I still love my IE with maxthon.
#36 Nathan Smith
Panos: You’re right, and to give Opera a fair, unbiased review, I wrote a follow-up article entitled Opera Round 2. Give it a read through, and let me know if you still take issue with it. However, I still do like Firefox better.
Mukund: To each his own, I guess. If you like IE then that’s your problem. ;)
#37 Chris Case
Wow!!!
I didn’t know so many people cared. I mean, all of my MCSE an C++ buddies are telling me IE is the DEVIL, and Firefox is pure salvation. I really don’t care enough, I guess. Perhaps I’m just the little guy that all of the computer geniuses in the world are trying to impress/cater too. Because I represent the average joe. With out you guys watching my back, I’d still be running a 56k modem on my apple classic typing with two fingers. Thanks for all your hard work… And keep the user friendly programs coming.
#38 Nathan Smith
Chris, I appreciate you taking the time to comment, and reading the whole article for that matter. After using Opera for awhile, I found it to be a pretty cool browser. You might want to give it a try and see if it’s a good fit.
#39 Janti
Quoting:
[quote]”I have been very impressed by the ability to drag and drop tabs to arrange them in different order. This has made it very easy to arrange multiple homepages in the order I want them to appear, rather than having to manually re-open each one and then reset my homepages.”[/quote]
My Note:
Well, this feature already exist in Opera and since long time ago, Firefox stolen it from Opera as they did with the tabs which was implemented by Opera first.
Opera is a more intuitive company; all other companies are taking their ideas and taken advantage of them.
All your review was from Firefox standpoint, it’s not fair subjective review, in short “worth nothing”
Janti
#40 Nathan Smith
Janti: You obviously didn’t read my review very carefully. Nowhere did I claim that Firefox was the first browser to have drag-and-drop tabs. I was simply pointing out that it’s nice that it finally does have them.
As far as intuitiveness, Opera doesn’t rank that highly on my scale, because as a developer, their browser is every bit as quirky as Internet Explorer when it comes to CSS implimentation. The lack of proper background centering is a big drawback. By the way, I did a follow-up review that can be found here:
http://sonspring.com/journal/opera-round-2
If you had actually read through the entire review, and the comments, you would have seen that. If you would like to talk about this further, feel free to email me. I would email you, but since you left a fake address, that makes it impossible. Also, take note that this article was written over two months ago. In the future, please get your facts straight before you go wasting my time.
#41 theUg
Ah, article in the best tradition of American Theology, or for that matter, anything mainstream American. ;) Anyhow, although I see that you changed your tune, and respect your ability to admit mistakes, I still shall try to stick to my original impression before reading about second round, for there is truly no excuse for such a fine example of American journalism (What do you know? More sarcasm! :)).
JD (post #23) and Treego14 (#25) saved me tons of valuable time for pointing out at the major Opera advantages. I will summarise and reiterate some of them, and bring one more significant point, which nobody mentioned.
* * *
Firstly, of course, MDI. Tabs are surrogate (although very convenient at that), in comparison to the true MDI. JD had more details on that. Photoshop, latest incarnations of Macromedia suite, even MS Office and OpenOffice use MDI, by the way. And to the point, none of them open new window while pressing [Ctrl + N] . So what was that about conventions? ;) And if you want, you can always switch Opera to SDI, if that is what you require.
And that was MDI, that first sold me on Opera five years ago. At the dark time when, nevermind tabs, there were no other decent browser on Win platform whatsoever (Netscape was too bloated and slow in comparison). Not MDI alone, but combined with other exciting feature that no one yet to match out of the box — Opera’s session management. Firefox/Mozilla offer none, but to open set of bookmarks at once (which Opera can do just the same, as one of the commentators pointed out).
Opera has the ability to save your current window state (as in all open tabs in order), and not only that, but every window’s history as well. That means, if was reading an article, and then went down some links, I have the ability to go back to the original article day, week, or a year after I was on thst original page, without digging through the bookmarks or trying to remember how did I get there in a first place.
So the workflow is fluid — everytime I start the browser, I come back to the same state I finished my last session without the need to open myriad of windows (my current session features 23 open tabs (well, I am way behind on my reading :)), each with history preserved), clicking on myriad of bookmarks, or typing myriad of addresses.
* * *
As for having separate windows open with separate tabs in each, Opera can do it, maybe not as intuitively for some, but can nevertheless. However, after I gave it a thought, I recon that the Firefox handles window and tabs together is clunky and unpredictable (have to think twice, which keyboard shortcut I have to press before I open that link in new page or tab). Moreover, in the environment lacking native taskbar (as in OSX versus Windows and common Linux desktop shells), that will turn into usability nightmare.
* * *
Another neat little pagebar feature — trash can on the right side of it. Sometimes anyone can accidentally close the tab, and this can lets you dig this tab (with all associated history, indeed) out to reappear the same way (and in the same order on the pagebar) as before. Plus, that is where opera dumps unwanted pop-ups, be that your preference.
* * *
Another thing mentioned that I want to reiterate is the quality/quantity ratio. Opera by default has more (like, way more) features in a smaller footprint, than bare-bone Firefox. How is that possible? That be the question for inefficient Firefox coders. Opera always emphasized the availability of its browser on as many platforms (which is unmatched, dare I say) with the smallest footprint possible, so that any user (whether he runs OS 9, BeOS, Solaris, Symbian, or Free BSD) with any connection will have the access to gamut of features with a small download.
And those features, many of them, Opera first introduced (or refined) to the mainstream browsing, and yet developed by leaps and bounds over the versions (I’ve been there since v5.12). Now it is almost ultimate Internet experience. I’ve got fast browser with polished and utterly capable and flexible interface, which greatly evolved over the years. I’ve got e-mail client (which I use), full-featured newsgroup/feedreader integrated with it (which I use), IRC chat client (which I use), contact manager (which I use) and few other nifty tools. All in one program, in one small download, with one process running in memory, under the umbrella of one button on my Windows or GNome taskbar.
There might be dedicated tools that can do each of this tasks a little better, but Opera performs well above average in all of this areas. And that, combined with tightly integrated solution (common legacy interface (buttons, layout, shortcuts), integrated across the board quick search feature (try this, by the way) etc.) in one sleek solution, reducing system load and desktop clutter, is definite winner.
* * *
On the technical side, couple notes as well. SVG is not just some Flash alternative. It is (as it was mentioned) open-source, and, importantly, XML-based (wich hadn’t been mentioned) with all the implications. So SVG support is important.
Another thing is CSS. Although Opera’s CSS support isn’t perfect (But whos is?), and it does have some minor bugs, generally it is more than sufficient, plus, those guys know a little something about it. Håkon Lie (CTO), who is on the Opera’s development team from the early days, was the first to suggest CSS idea, while working on WWW project at CERN, and was major contributor to original CSS specification.
* * *
Anyhow, to summarise, don’t treat me as an Opera evangelist, just long-time Opera lover and adorer. :) I am in no way is set to rip on Firefox, since it is very good alternative to IE, and best at that — converting people from the browsing demon (although IE7 beta looks quite promising), but for me Opera is the best, most feature-laden, flexible and capable choice.
From the standpoint of the simplicity for novice, Firefox is the mom’s browser. So I set up my very own mom to use it. :) But in this case I prefer Range Rover (quite an analogy — very good on and off the road) to Ford Mondeo.
* * *
On a personal note, Happy New Year from anther one born in U.S.S.R. By the way, your spouse might appreciate this. Tallin is fascinating city, and Pirita beach, along with the abbey ruins and Olympic Sailing Centre are fabulous. :)
#42 mukund
I guess its not a poblem man. I really love my IE. but only if its with maxthon. Firefox is what I think has done brilliant work. But IE much better and easier. Forget Opera. i use it only on my pda.
#43 Doci
I use both browsers and beside I found fireFox largerly customizable(ex: IE tab is really cool and usefull) there are a couple of things I really like about Opera:
– It does really force every window in tabs(i.e even windows that compare without url, don’t know how to call them).
– I like a lot Opera address bar that has bookmark button on it.
– It has download manager and bookmark manager organized in tabs.
– Trash button on the right side of tabs.
– Has better looking skins(but this is subjective)
Depends on days which one I prefer but I’m a little more on Opera
#44 Segovia
Wow. Very biased review. I find it difficult to believe that you’ve even used Opera for more than an hour or so, since you don’t seem to understand, or even acknowledge many of the features that seperate it from Firefox.
Out of the box and uncustomized, Opera is superior to Firefox by nearly any measurement. On the other hand, I don’t know anyone who uses Firefox in an uncustomized state.
Having said that, I do agree that Firefox is the better choice, simply because of the wide array of extensions that are available. A person can really make Firefox work exactly according to their needs.
By the way, very strange analogy where you contrast open and closed source code to restaurants. ;-) I, for one, would not be interested in eating at a place where everyone cooks? Then again, I don’t cook, nor do I want to. I do understand the advantages/disadvantages of open source, however the restaurant analogy is not very compelling, but rather frightening instead. LOL.