Journal
Absolute CSS Boxes
4 January 2006 › 50 comments
Quite some time ago, I had an argument with a friend who is a big fan of Microsoft products. While I’m no Xbox hater, I am not very fond of some of their more shoddy products such as Internet Explorer. He was justifying the shortcomings of IE6, saying that absolute positioning is rarely used in webpages, and that :hover pseudo class is not really that useful.
For the most part, he was right. Very few websites I have seen actually make extensive use of absolute positioning. By default, if you do not specify a mode, web browsers will use static positioning. This is what I used in nearly all the sites I have done. For most real-world scenarios, extra features are not needed. Still, good browsers adhere to standards as much as possible. There is even the Acid2 Test to determine how well various browsers measure up.
In that same vein of relatively useless, but somewhat amusing CSS implimentation, I have whipped up this little demo. It works in Firefox, Opera and Safari, but fails in the big blue E. Those who are proned to seizures might not want to move the mouse around too quickly. Use at your own risk:
Demo: Absolute CSS Boxes / Screenshot
There you have it folks, an impractically enjoyable use of CSS! By the way, these effects do not use images or JavaScript. It uses only a single file, containing valid XHTML 1.0 Strict and CSS. Feel free to take the code and do what you want with it. Don’t forget to check it out in Internet Explorer, and show all of your friends why they need to switch to a different browser. ;-)
Note: For Linux / Mac users without IE6, here’s a screenshot: IE6 Example.
Discussion + Dissension
Comments closed after 2 weeks.
#1 djn
Nice colors indeed.
A correction: the default value for the position property is static (otherwise every single element on a page would become the reference frame for its absolutely positioned descendants)
#2 Nathan Smith
Djn: Oops, I put the wrong thing. Thanks, duely noted and corrected.
#3 Jim
Saying that “most websites don’t use it” doesn’t excuse Internet Explorer from supporting something.
Most websites don’t use PNGs with an alpha channel. Why? Because Internet Explorer doesn’t support it.
Most websites don’t use display: table. Why? Because Internet Explorer doesn’t support it.
Most websites don’t use DOM event handling. Why? Because Internet Explorer doesn’t support it.
Most websites don’t use CSS 2 selectors. Why? Because Internet Explorer doesn’t support them.
I can list things all day. Saying “most websites don’t use [x]” is often directly attributable to Internet Explorer being broken in some fashion.
#4 Sean S
I got a lot of backlash when I used a notice (similar to your’s on this site) advising users of IE to switch to FireFox—it was only seen by users of IE. Part of it could be that I live in Redmond, WA, but I think there’s more to it.
No matter how much I try, convincing people seems to be an uphill battle (wow, much like sharing the Gospel). There’s at least three main hurdles in the way of people switching. I’ve identified them as:
1. Fear of installation
People are just plain scared of installing new software on their computers.
2. Fear of change
As mentioned, people fear what they do not know and although FireFox is just a simple web browser, it looks and “feels” different than Internet Explorer. Plus, the web experience (for most) isn’t broken. “Why fix it if it ain’t broke?”
3. Ignorance
Most people just don’t know what FireFox is, why it’s better and how to use it. Trying to combat that ignorance is more difficult than it ought to be, though, because technology (especially web technology) doesn’t use common vernacular. A large percentage of those I’ve told about FireFox had no idea what “tabs” were, or what “spoofing” is.
#5 Jonathan
Sean: well said.
For Firefox to really make it in the mainstream, it’ll have to do what Internet Explorer did. Come pre-installed as the default browser.
I’ve heard rumors that Dell is starting to sell PCs with Firefox already installed, but not as the default browser. Until that happens, as sad as it is, I tend to believe that Firefox use will remain in the minority.
As Sean said, most ‘regular users’ don’t even know that their browser is ‘broken.’
#6 Andrew Ingram
I don’t understand your contined hostility towards Microsoft and Internet Explorer, the IE team are really trying hard now to make a good browser. Sure, educate people that there are better options out there but “you are using the worst browser in the world” is a pretty aggressive message and probably destroys any persuasive power your example has.
Instead of having little banners saying “you use a sucky browser, get a decent one” at the top of a page that appears otherwise fully functional why not to show people what they’re missing? The example on this entry shows functionality that’s missing but doesn’t do anything to show why the average user should care.
The best bet is to construct an example that actually shows IE failing to do something useful rather than a just a few flashing boxes.
I’m actually starting to look at making designs that are “standards-enhanced”, so they work and look fairly nice in IE, but switch to a standards-compliant browser and an improve user experience is unlocked
Reading what i’m writing, I can see this might appear a little hostile but that’s not the intent, this comment is meant to be purely constructive.
#7 Robert
It can be annoying to write up valid CSS and it works in every browser but IE. Microsoft being as big as it is, should be taking the lead and not catch up when it comes to web standards.
From my view point, it seems like Microsoft wants to dictate what standards are acceptable. Maybe I am wrong, but what other reason is given for why Microsoft, being as big as they are, are playing catch up with the smaller companies?
Jim gave some great examples of functionality that IE doesn’t support. Even in IE7, it won’t support all web standards and functionality.
I believe Microsoft should be paving the way for standards, not playing catch up.
#8 Nathan Smith
Jim: That’s exactly how I feel. There’s nothing worse that reading through some tutorial on CSS Playground, only to realize that IE doesn’t support it. The web as a whole would be so much further along if the most widely used browser wasn’t a decade behind.
Sean: I can certainly identify with the backlash. When my site was featured on CSS Vault, I got an email via my contact form telling me to “Go to hell you Nazi!” Yet, supporting open-source, wouldn’t that make me a communist? ;P
Jonathan: That’s pretty cool that Firefox is starting to come pre-installed. If I was running Microsoft, I would just pull a Flock maneuver – Just use the Gecko engine and slap your own big blue aqua logo on it, then send the IE7 team to work on user interfaces for Xbox video games.
Andrew: The nice thing about this demo is that it doesn’t specifically target Internet Explorer. Sure, the hostile message displays to IE6 users, but only because of a rendering bug. Unlike my conditional comments on the top of this site, the “worst browser” message will disappear, assuming IE7 gets all its CSS rendering issues fixed.
It’s like Rob said, Microsoft is big enough of a company that they should know better than to let their browser stagnate. It’s been well over three years since Wired.com, the first major CSS site re-design went live. MS is overdue in catching up, and needs to quit dragging their feet. Everyone knows that. I am simply done pulling punches, and want to see a little more forward progress.
#9 Eric
Well, there’s apparently a problem w/the way Firefox renders this page too. My Firefox doesn’t properly display the “You are using the worst browser in the entire world.” text located near the center of the screen.
Hmm…
#10 Mystere
While Microsoft should certainly be shot for sitting on its laurels for so long, they ARE improving things a great deal. What does sitting around and complaining about it do, they’re already taking action. You’re just coming off as sounding bitter. They’re doing the right thing now. They’re working with WaSP, they’re fixing their bugs, they’re adding support for a lot of stuff. No, they aren’t going to be perfect, but then i’d much rather have a 75% release in a year with improvements to come after, than a 100% release in 2 or 3.
Yes, IE’s CSS support sucks. Everyone knows. Microsoft knows. And they’re fixing it. Does it really do anyone any good to keep jabbing the knife and repeating it over and over again?
#11 elmustapha
mes loisirs sont plus que mes prieres
#12 Drew
I’ve done something similar with creating a faux image map out of NOT images.
-- http://www.mnattorneyprofiles.com/babysteps.php
:hover does function with anchor tags. Look at that page with styling disabled.
Note that there’s a bug of some kind with FF 1.0.x – 1.5+ and several other browsers are fine (Opera even scales it correctly)
#13 Rob
Mystere,
Not quite. They are fixing CSS1 bugs. All the other browsers are sprucing up CSS2.1 and CSS3. The bug fixes will cause monstrous problems for those who used hacks, such as the star hack, Holly hack and so on. There are a lot of sites that use them and now they won’t work in IE7. But…but…they’ll still need them for IE6…but….but….what about the hacks for IE5…...!
#14 theUg
To Nathan. For the same reason, I quit experimenting with float property for columns, and stuck with absolute positioning when needed + div {position:relative} in the beginning of stylesheet technique. Except it is Mozilla/Firefox who chokes up on it. ;)
As for Xbox, it is decent product, but the marketing techniques MS uses are quite gruesome. I’m talking about creating the hype and supporting artifitial demand, by purpotedly restraining production and distribution. And what is it about 90-warranty for a $300 product? Ludicrous.
To Sean. Or you could install FireFox and put IE skin on it for a smooth transition.
By the way, make it “most average users don’t know what browser is.” ;) For them it is just “internet”, as an icon on desktop says.
To Mr. Ingram. The problem with MS, is that they started to “try hard” a little too late. No question, they always had some good developers on IE team, but those blokes weren’t incredibly encuraged by the management. Vide mr. Çelik’s departure for instance.
Although IE 7 looks like a giant leap for a mankind.
Personally, I don’t see a reason for anti-IE crusades anymore. What we need is more and more monetary punishments that companies and organisations must endure for providing inaccessible websites. Like in case when IOC was fined ~ $20 000 for the website of Sydney 2000 Olympics was inaccessible to one blind Australian. When somebody will start to lose actual money, reliability on proprietary technologies will greatly diminish, and problem of non-compliant browsers will fade away.
#15 Eyrieowl
You may also be interested in this site: http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/ I have found it to be an excellent example of what CSS standards could accomplish.
#16 Shawn
Andrew:
“the IE team are really trying hard now to make a good browser”
Mystere:
“What does sitting around and complaining about it do, they’re already taking action.”
Andrew, “trying really hard” brings to mind something about the Road to Hell and well-intentioned pavement; and Mystere, it’s not so much “already” as “finally.” What we’ve discovered is this: Microsoft pushes unfinished products with proprietary deliberate rejection of standards, strong-arms their acceptance (if possible), and ultimately only adopts standards / fixes bugs when enough of the public “jabs the knife” for years upon years.
In short—Microsoft only plays by the rules when enough people have gotten bitter and jabbed enough knives that Microsoft can no longer ignore the criticisms. And when a heavy-handed company only responds to bitter, repeated knife-jabbing, that is exactly what they get.
#17 Anthony John
Microsoft being as big as it is, should be taking the lead and not catch up when it comes to web standards.
History shows that MS hasn’t been interested in other peoples’ welfare…only in making sure they take advantage of opportunities. Think back a little bit. Bill Gates didn’t think the internet was any big deal, and MS wasn’t concerned about it. Netscape was THE browser until Bill was convinced that it was in his best interest to compete. I think that IE7 is the same: an opportunity that he can’t pass up.
This is the self-serving nature of free enterprise, and I don’t think it’s worth griping about. Firefox and Opera and others exist because they saw an opportunity that MS wasn’t taking. While the open source community may be altruistic in general, it’s really unfair to expect a corporation to be run by the same principles.
#18 Anonymouse
“While Microsoft should certainly be shot for sitting on its laurels for so long, they ARE improving things a great deal.”
Laurels? What laurels?
Oh, wait, that’s right. The only competition IE has ever won is market share, and they cheated to win. Remember the forced browser bundling and the antitrust lawsuit that didn’t do jack shit?
#19 Alistair
Eric: The web page displayed fine in my window. I’m using Firefox 1.5.
#20 compu73rg33k
I’m on linux and am curious to know what it looks like in IE. Could someone please post a screenshot?
#21 John
honestly, I hate people that downright, flat-out tell me that FF is better than IE. I forced myself to use FF for a month, just to see. And, I came out not caring about FF at all. I’m happy with IE.
#22 ownzyaface
taking action? only because they’re forced to do so otherwise face being classed as an ‘obsolete’ browser option (although they already are). more and more people are switching to mozilla by the minute due to the obvious advantages and security issues. why would a king allow his empire to crumble when all is needed is a little kick up the ass?
#23 Bill Gates
IE – For n00bs
FF – For 1337
Know The Ledge
#24 Drew
Can we please get off this antiM$ crap? WE KNOW. I’m no fan of M$, but let’s focus on the tech issue of this, which (I think) is “When absolute positioning can actually be useful.”
If anyone is curious about the page I referenced earlier, think hundreds of divs arranged in a relative-absolute-relativeDummy-absolute fashion. I have yet to test it in IE5, but that’d be something if it works in XHTML strict mode AND old ass browsers.
#25 Rick Gutleber
I don’t understand your contined hostility towards Microsoft and Internet Explorer, the IE team are really trying hard now to make a good browser.
I think the fact that you are making that statement in 2006, instead of 2000 (or 1995!) should explain it all.
#26 Rob
IE is seven years behind the current standards, ie, they do not meet them in their implementation of CSS/DOM, etc. while Firefox/Opera/Safari are reasonably current. Try this if you are curious about DOM support:
http://www.w3.org/2003/02/06-dom-support.html
#27 Nathan Smith
Wow, there’s been a lot of feedback. Firstly, let me say that the intention of this article was not primarily to bash Internet Explorer. Rather, it was to address the potential creative, albeit impractical, uses of absolute positioning. It’s not “rigged,” as one person on Digg accused. It’s just simple XHTML.
When I fired up IE for testing, I fully expected it to work, except for the pseudo
:hover. To my surprise, it handled the absolutes pretty poorly, so I decided to post it as an example. I never expected it would get to the front page of Digg, so for all the people complaining that this article is irrelevant, you’re right. It was meant for an entirely different target audience.The debate back and forth about IE verses Firefox, that’s not the point. The important thing is that all browsers move towards web standards. For those that were complaning about IE rendering more pages correctly than Firefox, Opera or Safari, you need to realize this is not because IE is somehow better, but because developers are used to catering to the Windows using majority.
Someone even pointed out that my example page is “unnecessary crap,” but then points out that IE does an admirable job of rendering my main website. What this person failed to understand is that SonSpring.com renders correctly in IE because I paid special attention to make sure that I design around the limitations of this browser. In the case of the example, I decided to “cut loose” so to speak, and design solely for experimental purposes.
So please, if you are baffled by why we as web developers think that Internet Explorer is a shoddy browser, and want to defend it for rendering web pages “good enough,” then take the time to realize that we specifically design with IE in mind simply because it’s the default, but not because it is praiseworthy.
#28 Teague Algie
I love the “worst browser in the world” thing, its awesome. I use firefox, and I really enjoy the fact that it renders CSS properly, its always a pain to have to go back and add more lines to the existing CSS jsut so IE users can fully appreciate the experience as its meant to be. I remember when i first started using CSS (not long after starting to learn html, along with everything else) and noticing a big difference. At that time, I had a HUGE prejudice against Macs, and assumed that the rendering of CSS and other scripts would be terribly flawed. (wow, i managed to touch upon another touchy subject there) My realization that the rendering of styles and such by Macs is consistant with the standards was the beginning of my eyes being opened to the fact that Macs arent that evil.
I wonder what would happen if someone made an IE skin for firefox, which is hard to imagine any firefox user ever diong, but interesting food for thought anyway.
#29 kiji
eric; nothing wrong with FF not displaying the “you’re usinf the worst browser…”. Thatr is exactly the point; if you can’t see it, your borwser works allright. Only IE, that does not render absolute positioning as absolute, shows that message.
As for the defence of IE; the team IE may be working very hard on IE7, but it’s way too long overdue, and we’ll still have to see to what degree they’ll adhere to standards. They’ve allready rejected the acid2 test as just an arbitrary selection of css features (which in a way it is). IE 7 a great leap for mankind? huh, am I missing something? IE 7 is only catching up; there is no single feature in it (as far as we can see now) that is not somehow allready working in other browsers. Too late, too little.
And unfortunately many pages are designed only for IE (pointing to you MSN, DELL…) because of what? Lazy or unknowledgeable webmasters? Whatever their reasons the result now is that most people now think all browsers except IE are flawed when checking, say, DELL. Personally I think Dell makes a big mistake; FF may only have 10% market share, but that 70% of that 10% are an important group in marketing demography; well educated, well earning, mostly IT-related. Even if that demography is incorrect, DELL is still possibly throwing away 10% of sales.
#30 Devil Boy
“While Microsoft should certainly be shot for sitting on its laurels for so long, they ARE improving things a great deal.”
How? I installed IE 7 beta 1 today. It appears to be exactly the same browser internals with some new bling hung on it. Acid2 looks the same, this lovely little test looks the same, they have done NOTHING so far.
I think the hostility towards M$ is totally deserved. They have screwed the consumers (that would be you and me) by nearly destroying competition in the browser space and then sitting on their tails because there was nobody to challenge them for so long.
We are all worse off for M$’s entry into the market.
#31 pk_synths
Funny how you mix up familiarity vs ingenuity. Your demo is like trying to convince fire that electricty is more efficient even though fire existed long before electricity was available. It’s like trying to teach someone to ride a bicycle a new way. You must realize 70% of IE users dont use IE because they are stupid but because they like it. Forcing yourself off their radar is a dumb move.
Brute force will get you nowhere. I myself use both browsers and BOTH browsers have flaws.
Hope you enjoyed the metaphor. Peace out.
-PK
#32 Andrew Ingram
I’m not entirely certain about the accuracy of this, but it seemed to me that the timing of ceasing development IE was around the time that anti-trust lawsuits started heating up.
Microsoft was offering a competitive browser, for free, pre-installed.
Maybe there was a reason other than not giving a damn for Microsoft ceasing development for so long. This is just speculation though, the anti-trust things might have been at a slightly different time, I can’t remember.
Devil Boy, pretty much ALL of the improvements in IE7 have been made after beta 1. I get the impression that beta 1 was just cobbled together so that the first beta of vista had a web browser. Don’t forget that all the competition to IE at the time when IE gained dominance was FAR worse. The web is in a poor state and this is in part due to Microsoft, but it’s not just because of Microsoft.
Pk_synths kind of made my other point in that this example is preaching to the choir. People need to be shown in practical terms what they are missing by not having more up-to-date rendering in their browsers.
#33 Bruce Hodo
I have no problem looking at the test page in Mozilla. But I can’t view it in my IE. I get a popup asking me whether I want to download and save the file or execute it. If I select “execute” I get another popup asking me what application I want to use. It may be a browser setup problem on my end (I’m accessing it from my job using a customized {read restricted} version of IE6), but it may be exacerbated due to the anchor’s href not having a filename (href=”http://host.sonspring.com/boxes/”). I don’t know if you have a default page filename defined in your web server, but that could be the source of my problem.
What is the filename, by the way? I’ll add it to my link so I can see the page in IE.
#34 Java Junky
The comment by Sean S (#4) misses the point: Microsoft became the billion dollar company it is because it brought computing to the stupid people. People like Internet Explorer because they don’t have to understand anything in order to surf the web, they don’t have to decide which extensions they want, or why they want them, or how to use them once they have them.
Sure, there’s a great deal of fear of change involved in the hesistancy to adopt FireFox, but your reasons for needing to adopt are all but lost on the non-geek. Remember, the market you are trying to reach was too scared to have a computer in their house until Billy G. showed them that they could be dumb and smart at the same time. Say what you will, but Microsoft IS computing and always WILL be computing for the masses of people like my mother, my grandmother, my father in law, etc.
And besides, Firefox is so has-been; a real player uses Flock, the social browser (www.flock.com)
#35 David Hergert
That CSS is so simple! What the hell is wrong with IE
And now someone said IE 7 doesn’t even display it correctly? Thats ridiculous!
#36 Nathan Smith
Pk_synths: I like your analogy about fire and electricity. Again, I reiterate that this example was meant to be taken in a light-hearted manner. I was simply poking fun at Microsoft a little bit. They have probably got pretty thick skin if they can square off against the US government. I’m sure they can take a slight ribbing from a sarcastic web developer.
Andrew: That’s a good point. Perhaps they decided to ease off development of Internet Explorer because of the attention that was being focused on it as result of the anti-trust trials. I suppose I am preaching to the choir about the CSS drawbacks in IE. It was never my intention for the article to land on Digg and stir up so much dissent amongst the masses of average users.
Bruce: The file extension is not anything special, just a regular
index.html. I am puzzled as to why it is not working through your corporate restrictions. Try adding on the filename and see if that helps. It really is not that great of a demo, so if it continues to give you an error, I would not fret over it too much.Java Junky: Good point. To many people, the word “computer” is synonymous with a Windows based personal computer. It really does not matter terribly that they are all using Internet Explorer. Heck, I am really hoping that IE7 will be all it’s cracked up to be. That will make my job a whole lot easier if all the average computer users are all on standards compliant browsers.
#37 Rob
MS does a lot of apologizing on the IEBlog about what IE7 will not be so hoping IE7 will “be all it’s cracked up to be” is not hoping for much. Unfortunately, many will be all turned on the blinking lights and tabbed browsing, as if tabbed browsing was some holy grail.
#38 Chris Harrison
I absolutely love the IE6 screenshot… lol. Too funny. Great CSS example.
#39 luke
Just for curiosity’s sake, I checked out the test page in my stand-alone versions of IE5 and IE55. Both rendered the page just fine, but IE6 looks just like the screenshot on the post (of course).
Neither of the IE5s handled the :hover, either.
I’ve noticed this a few other times as well. It makes me think my stand-alones don’t actually work properly.
#40 Nathan Smith
Luke: That’s interesting. It would seem then, that IE6 actually developed more bugs. That is, assuming that your stand-alone installations aren’t somehow different from the actual, older IE5’s. I usually just make sure things work in the current versions of major browsers, and don’t really sweat the older ones. I’m curious, where did you get the stand-alone versions?
#41 Luke
The stand-alones I have are from here:
http://www.skyzyx.com/archives/000094.php
The download section is down for a software upgrade, so who knows when they’ll be back up. They’re certainly hacked up a bit as some things, like conditional comments, won’t work with the stand-alones vs the actual OS version. I did find them quite helpful for testing, though.
#42 FDV
Install (fully patched) Windows 2000 without IE:
http://www.vorck.com/remove-ie.html
http://www.vorck.com/2ksp5.html
(I didn’t read it but want to reply that you can’t / it’s impossible / it’s integrated / it isn’t REALLY removed / I think you only removed the icon / this is all fake and not real / Windows update won’t work but http://windowsupdate.62nds.com/whyuse.php will work fine, OMG / IE has no bugs in it, WTF are you talking about / Firefox would be just as buggy if it were as popular / I only want to spend 4 seconds reading and then rebut something you’ve already dealt with: http://www.vorck.com/answers-ie.html#experts)
#43 Tor Bollingmo
It works perfectly well in IE 5.5. Without the hover, of course.
#44 Andrew Ingram
Which means it not working in IE6 is a bug rather than a lack of implementation. Hopefully meaning it’s fixed in new builds of IE7.
#45 Paul Randall
Hi Guy’s…
Big respect to the web standards supporters on this blog and a “shame on you” to the MSIE supporters!
I have been building websites for around 10 years now and must admit to being a late adopter to CSS and web standards. Now I have adopted them I can see their importance and as far as I’m concerned I agree with the people on here that believe M$ flout standards and simply just think they can do what they like due to their massive market share as a result of the dodgy way they have forced IE on the worlds populus by bundling it with windows.
They can absolutely be blamed for the lack of adoption of many cool and useful featues such as alpha rendering of 24bit PNG’s and many other really great CSS improvements (as previously mentioned).
Sir Tim and his crew at W3C work extremely hard for zero profit to impliment these standards and the rest of the browser manufacturers support them only for MS to take the piss and not include them in IE.
I read somewhere on an official IE blogsite that the reason they will NOT be fixing all of their CSS bugs in IE7 is because many old sites designed for their crappy browser would break. So bloody what. I don’t care about having to do a few small fixes on some of my older sites if it means that I can code to standards and forget about it in the future.
Anyway, what about the holly and * html hacks. They didn’t care about killing our sites by fixing those babies did they.
I think M$ should take a leaf out of Apples book. Apple built Safari around the Konqueror engine and just put proprietary stuff into the functionality of the program. Then they freely allowed other Mac developers to use the safari rendering engine with webkit in their own software.
I personally think Apple made this fantastic Acid2 passing browser because of their embarrasment of the ageing IE5.5/Mac browser that they had agreed to bundle because of their 5 year deal with M$.
I use three really amazing browsers on my Mac all built around the Safari engine and they rock. Xyle Scope www.culturedcode.com/xyle/ is a great example of what can be achieved. It is a basic web browser but has the ability for you to analyse the CSS of any web page so you can figure out how the page is made. You can also play with the CSS attributes to see how they change the site. I have learned so much more about the proper use of CSS by using this amazing web page analyser/browser.
IE is just built for cave men living in the stone age.
In my opinion the governments of the world should make the W3C ’s standards mandatory and browser manufacuturers should have to use an approved rendering engine that has passed the Acid2 test or something similar.
I really love the idea one user on here put forward that we should use all of the new cool stuff and just build a really simple but acceptable IE version using conditional comments. Then we should include a pop up and put on it a small sample of the cool stuff as a screenshot and say “this is how this page could be viewed if you switched over to a newer standards compliant browser like “Firefox, Opera, Safari etc with links to those sites.”
Have a goog-un guy’s!!!!
Nice to see that so many other people care about the future of the web.
Paul
#46 Nathan Smith
Paul: I don’t think I’d go so far as to say “IE is just built for cave men living in the stone age,” but I agree that it needs some serious improvement. I think of it this way: IE6 is like a car that runs on leaded gasoline. Yes, it will get you where you need to go. Yes, at one time it was the way to do it. No, it isn’t really modern anymore, and there are much better options at Browse Happy.
#47 Jeff Adams
I just tried your test on the recently released IE7 beta 2 public preview and it looks exactly the freakin same as it did in IE6. Exactly!
#48 Nathan Smith
Jeff: That’s pretty funny. I find it especially amusing, considering this example was heavily linked to from the Microsoft Mix’06 blog, which covered topics that would be spoken about at their recent conference in Las Vegas. They should do the smart thing and build off the Gecko engine, and just focus on Xbox!
#49 Andrew Ingram
Take out the doctype and watch it work perfectly in IE6/IE7. Yes that’s right, the strict mode actually introduces errors that the quirks mode renders just fine
#50 Nathan Smith
I wouldn’t say it “introduces” the errors, since the errors are caused by IE6/7 itself. I’d say that’s a bug with doctype handling on Microsoft’s part. It’s good to know though, that if you would really need this technique to work, you can force it to, by compromising the quality of XHTML. Hooray for IE7 hacks. :)